April, 2022

Prof. Kees van der Veer is:

~ Director of the Cultural Studies Foundation SCS Amsterdam,
~ Professor at Transcend Peace University, Germany & Free University of Amsterdam
~ Former Research fellow at the International Peace Research Institute Oslo

LF: How do you think political leaders can mitigate the risk of international military conflict/s? What has proved to work / not work over the years?

KEES VDV: If you think of the role of the United Nations as a Security council, found as a focal point after WWII, one big problem with the United Nations as a security council is that a couple of countries can veto any decision. That's what we observe now. So, for example, Russia vetoes all resolutions against Russia, and the US vetoes all resolutions against Israel.
Sometimes this has been working – like in conflicts in the Balkans, where a Peace Corps has been sent. However, even then, not everything went so smoothly. So ideally, we need to change the decision-making process of the Security Council. It is too big a luxury to keep on with the old structure - where one country can block all kinds of international initiatives – especially when the country itself is involved. The safer modality is the qualified majority. I can't say precisely how it should be – but it's time for transformation. The ones who have veto power in the Security Council are the ones who won WWII, and they strongly talk in terms of "WINNING" and "LOSING ." So that has to be changed now. Or maybe the decisions about the International Peace Corps need to be more independent from frauds in the Security Council.
Let's take, for example, what's going on now in Ukraine war as an international crisis. There must be an intervention, independent institution or countries, not NATO countries, not Belarus or Russia, but ample UN support, if you will. And the Security Council should not control the Peace interventions or, better said, block them. Although, I am well aware that some countries in the Security Council have established such a strong position that it may take a long time before we can witness the Council's fundamental transformation.

LF: And are you hopeful that eventually, the veto will be removed?

KEES VDV: Eventually, yes, but only when there is strong support for it for many, many countries, like India. That's also a big country, much bigger than France or the UK. I think they also have the right to decide. WWII is over, and the world is not organized by those who have won it. We should go to a new system with all kinds of voting and majority. We cannot allow having anymore the current system, where the vote of some countries is more important than the vote of others. A critical priority is addressing the blocking power that some countries have now. We witness how Russia is blocking much, like the US is blocking much, in return.

LF: So, in that sense, do you believe that doing more DIVERSITY & INCLUSION WORK will help integrate other countries' voices in the international dialogue?

KEES VDV: Yes, that's a possibility – a natural way to introduce this idea. Of course, the so-called "world powers" votes like the US, Russia, and China may weigh a bit more than others – like Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, or Bulgaria. But the veto is deadly - it blocks everything. Currently, the UN can't send troops to Ukraine. Still, we could not stop the war yet, and not only Ukrainian boys and girls, just 17 and 18 years old, lose their lives, but also many Russians. They don't understand the idea of what's going on. And after all - the hope stays that we manage to seize the conflict! In the end, wars always end in talking.

LF: How can we use culture and cross-cultural activities to promote peace?

KEES VDV: That means trying to get a mutual understanding between cultures. An excellent example is Palestine, reporting all incidents to the United Nations, the Security Council, and the International Court in The Hague – the Criminal Court. Although Israel is not an active member of it, now the Court is investigating those incidents also crimes by Hamas.
I found a perfect example of how we can use cross-cultural activities in the face of the famous pianist – Daniel Barenboim. He is of Israeli nationality but organized an orchestra with both Palestinian and Israeli youngsters together. And that idea is already several years old. Barenboim believes that if the music brings these two groups together in learning how to do art, hatred between them may dissolve.
It is just one founding stone, but it is a step in the right direction. So definitely, I think Barenboim is right. He is just one of the examples of peacebuilding with cross-cultural work. But, of course, there are more similar initiatives in Bethlehem, for example.

LF: What role, in your view, the Mass media plays in the conflict eruption and management, especially in the most recent humanitarian crisis and war in Ukraine?

KEES VDV: The question about the Mass Media is interesting, especially regarding what we observe internationally now. The media reports concerningly use qualifications like "GOOD GUYS" and the "BAD GUYS" and strategies and counter-strategies for "WINNING." Numerous talk shows, TVs, newspapers, and magazines describe the tragedy slightly - like it was a video game. And if we only look at conflicts that way – does it bring any value?
It is very reasonable to ask why Media don't seek the qualified opinion of experts – psychologists, and sociologists, who are more focused on conflict resolution. Also, a solution always means talking!
Experts would be able to unpack the current humanitarian crisis with its hidden international dynamics. For example, one explanation of why Russians attacked Ukraine was the Ukrainian fascist government. Based on what a lot of investigative journalists have revealed – yes, there are fascists there. However, there are fascist politicians also in The Netherlands, Bulgaria, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, and France. But Putin doesn't seem to understand that – he's still thinking in terms of the ideas of WWII.
Hence, this inevitably brings many people in Russia to accept the "anti" modalities, as they get that type of preliminary prepared information or no information at all from outside Russia. So there are lots of things in the big puzzle that are part of the quotient of this conflict. Then we need to put all the puzzle pieces together and find out what we can achieve with a peaceful discussion. Otherwise, we can ask how many people should still be killed for Putin to be satisfied enough to stop?
One of the puzzle pieces is that Ukraine was a member of the ex-Soviet Union, which Putin is trying to restore.

Hence the media must pay attention to the peace component, first and foremost.

On the contrary, it is sad to see arbitrary material which takes sides of violence. How can we be happy about people of whichever nationality dying? Such media brings us further away from a solution. The head of the Transcend University in Germany, Johan Galtung, calls the solution PEACE JOURNALISM. It consists of discussing the actual conflicts and their roots and delving into what we can do now. So United Nations should keep trying to establish a peacebuilding conversation, even if they still can't stop the violence.

LF: Since you're an expert in Mass media, could you advise people on how to differentiate between real news and fake news and propaganda?

KEES VDV: One thing is sure – we need to trust good journalism and not all the rambling, unverified Internet news and random articles. Unfortunately, such pseudo-posts have been going on for too long already. So double-check and confirm that the information comes from an independent source. If not, ignore it.
For example, Russia doesn't allow other news except for Russian State news. And now Europe has banned Russian channels, which I find not very helpful. But for example, when the shot down airplane MH70 in the summer of 2014, Russia released a media narrative that it was a plane launched by the Dutch with dead bodies to provoke the Russians and create a conflict in Donbas. Then came more weird unverified reports, and some people were to believe them. This type of news can fortify some people's belief that Putin is the good guy who takes extra care of his nation. Thanks to similar preliminary framing, fake news work in Russia, the Netherlands, or any other country.
So we should always strive to unmask it and reveal it. Recently, we witnessed similar "complot" theories of vaccination. Some see the World Economic Forum as the biggest complot group, ruling the world.

I believe now, more than ever, is a time to let experts speak, those experts who know the history of countries like Ukraine, the history of nation-building!

Let them advise on a good way forward.

LF: Besides being a research fellow from the International Peace Research Institute Oslo, you have done a dissertation on Ideology and Mass media. Would you contribute the Russian invasion of Ukraine partly to outdated ideologies?

KEES VDV: In Psychology, we talk about frames of reference. We can also review ideologies in terms of frames of reference. Depending on the exposure to specific information sources, we can have an open or a relatively closed frame of reference. That's also, by the way, why people take from the Internet unverified news sites only that news that fits into their own "frame." If it doesn't match, they call that "fake news," regardless of whether it is accurate. Nonetheless, it's pretty difficult to talk of outdated ideologies.
Sure enough, from my perspective and probably yours, the idea that you need to relive the Soviet Union and defend it - is quite outdated. Indeed, the world should not be split into power blocks, as that has never brought any peaceful solution to any country.
But it depends on how you look upon it because from Putin's point of view – he's lost lots of things and wants to restore what has been "lost."
For example, the former president Medvedev told Finland that the country should never have been "given independence" in 1970 by Lenin, as this has been a mistake. That shows a bit of the regressive thinking of Russian leaders. And that's why Finland doesn't feel safe in their country with the contract they had with Russia after WWII. Hence logical comes the request to become a member of NATO. And I think they will succeed without a doubt.
So, with his actions, Putin achieves only the opposite of what he wants. As a result, the ideology has crumbled on the ground.

LF: Totally. When an ideology has oppressed multiple nations, sooner or later a push-back movement will inevitably come. People will voice their freedom and fight for it. It is what happened with the Soviet Union falling apart. It has been an artificial construct that could not have lasted forever. It cannot.

KEES VDV: And you can't restore it.

LF: There is currently a national wave in The Netherlands of consciousness building around the colonization period in ex-Dutch colonies like Indonesia and Suriname. What's your prediction of the success and evolvement of this movement in the next five years?

KEES VDV: I think in The Netherlands, people have been silent (too) long time about what happened in Indonesia, Suriname, and the former colonies on the Caribbean islands. The question about Indonesia, the events of 1942, including the country's Liberation war, has been in the shadow till recently.
We have realized that we didn't pay too much attention to that for two reasons.
First, many veterans sent by the Dutch government had been fighting in Indonesia. 10 000 Dutch soldiers were there, so the government didn't dare at first act on the war crimes committed there. But, of course, when they tried, the veterans said, "well, we have been fighting for the Queen."

LF: So shaming has been used?

KEES VDV: Yes, the veterans have been considered national heroes. The war was never adequately labeled as an Independence war. The Dutch government saw it as a resolution that was to be stopped immediately. But, of course, it was a real Independence war.
However, now that those people have died and lots of research has been done, with today's data, the government has admitted – yes, we have been wrong there. Even the families of Dutch Indie families get financial compensations now, and they should, rightfully, do. Too late, we can say. But at least it finally happens.
Also, in the past, the slave trade in Suriname was quite intensive.
Of course, there's still much to be disclosed about the slavery history. Also, many books are published on the topic at the moment.
To recap on that question, becoming aware of history is an ongoing process, especially the bad parts of history and our blind spots. And that will happen absolutely – many researchers currently work on that. Maybe not in 5 years, but in 10 years, let's say. Then, of course, it goes a bit further when we attempt to re-label all those historical figures who have been seen as national heroes in the past – like Piet Hein and Michiel de Ruyter, for example. Those, who by all means committed "War crimes" or crimes against humanity, but their acts, were seen as heroism back then. Of course, we cannot be held responsible for it, but looking with eyes open at wrongdoings is crucial.

LF: And one more pending question – do we need to remove their statues because they are part of history?

Kees VDV: No, these people contributed to, even partly shaped, our history. We should remember them in the context of their world with the view of today, for example, by putting information about them and their roles besides their statues.